Comments for Near Emmaus

Comment on Recommend books on spirit(s) in the ancient world by Howard Pepper

Howard Pepper — Tue, 21 May 2013 21:07:27 +0000

Brian, if you are still following this thread, I just discovered another source that appears relevant to your project: “Jesus the Healer: Possession, Trance and the Origins of Christianity” by Stevan L. Davies. NY: Continuum, 1995.

Comment on Paul the Zealot? by Howard Pepper

Howard Pepper — Tue, 21 May 2013 20:58:59 +0000

It does seem Paul could have been a Zealot, though unlikely. Isn’t it pretty clear that the entire focus of the Zealots was liberation from foreign occupation/control? (Mainly via Josephus, who indeed is far from unbiased. But it seems to make sense.) Paul MAY have changed his attitude toward Rome post-conversion… we don’t know; but I don’t think persecuting one Jewish sect (Jesus followers) which may at most have been tolerant of Roman rule (though honoring a higher kingdom) would qualify one as a Zealot by definitions of their time.

It IS interesting that Luke clearly appears to disguise the fact that the “other” Simon was “the Zealot” in one or more (don’t recall which) other gospels. Not a good association for early Christians to have known soon after the war… might relate to Paul’s situation, too.

Comment on More on the historicity or non-historicity of Adam and Eve by Patrick

Patrick — Tue, 21 May 2013 00:06:29 +0000

These guys are missing the point when they demonstrate Genesis 1-2 is similar to non Jewish ANE cosmology. It is, no doubt. In fact, it’s about 90% Egyptian cosmology and 10% Babylonian from what I’ve read.

The problem is that Jesus uses the murder of Cain as partial Divine cause to pronounce judgment on Jerusalem. He sure seems there to be speaking as Yahweh, not for Yahweh.

That kind of thing is exactly not what we see in the narrative, that type of inconsistent, departure from the norm conduct between Jesus as Yahweh and Yahweh pre Incarnation.

Jesus treated Adam, Noah, the flood and such as historic events and people. Enns has attacked Paul’s theology relative to Adam, next he has to take on The Lord Himself. Adam is real with me until Enns can convince me he knows more than Paul and Christ Himself does about the ancient narrative.

That’s a very tall order.

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by Robert

Robert — Mon, 20 May 2013 14:39:54 +0000

Bob
i believe anything that can be taken literal must be taken literal unless it can be proved figurative or spiritual . Some people think because some prophesies use figurative descriptions to describe literal beings,places and things we should interpret figuratively things which are described perfectly within normal ancient and modern comprehension . Some do so to protect doctrines that were developed from the minds of men to eliminate all the witnesses against it. Under this type of practice proof and reproof is rendered worthless .

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by Bob Demyanovich

Bob Demyanovich — Mon, 20 May 2013 09:57:19 +0000

Israel was chosen as the exceptions took God literally. The exceptions being Able, Enoch, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua etc., and by definition, the prophets. Literal believing expresses the believers apart from all other inhabitants. Literal believing accomplishes the challenges presented in what believers accept as the will and Word of God. Peter is at great moments of the Holy Spirit such as the transfiguration, walking on water and daily living with the Messiah yet Jesus prays that Peter will strengthen the brethren “when” he is converted. How many there are that attend or pass through churches and assemblies without actually accepting, believing and receiving Jesus. Tragically, nearly everyone we meet throughout the day have no time for Jesus, who are at the precipice of damnation. As for literal believing, does Ezekiel’s temple restore ritual animal sacrifice for a millennium at the end of the Church Age? Eze 40:1-48:35

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by Doug in CO

Doug in CO — Mon, 20 May 2013 04:19:11 +0000

I’d let the Psalms, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Hosea, SOS, and other prophetic books define the terminology, which means that none of it was ever intended to be taken literally. Look at what we know of as a historical account of David’s deliverance in Psalm 18 and 2nd Sam. 22. Did God literally come down and throw arrows or rain hail? No. Why do we think any other use of the language in scripture means anything other than it’s precedent of use? It’s all about national collapse and judgement, just as it was meant in the 1st Century, which was fulfilled as promised.

Doug

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by Brian LePort

Brian LePort — Sun, 19 May 2013 21:21:49 +0000

Robert

It does seem to be a bit unclear, and I don’t know that I have an answer. In the article “Festivals and Holy Days” by Daniel K. Falk in The Eerdmans Dictionary of Early Judaism (eds. J.J. Collins and D.C. Harlow, p. 638) writes of Shavout/Pentecost, “It has no fixed date in Torah but is to be observed seven weeks after the offering of the first ripe sheaf of barely (Deut. 16:9; cf. Lev. 23:15-16)….” He dedicates a whole paragraph to the fact that “…the date on which the Festival of Weeks should be observed was the subject of much considerable debate among different Jewish groups.” So, it seems to ambiguity you observe is one that was shared in early Judaism. It makes one wonder whether popularly there began to emerge a date celebrated my a majority of Jews, or if Luke (or those about who he writes in Acts 1-2) favored a particular interpretation.

Doug

And then I wonder what Peter is doing with his quotation (or more specifically, what is Luke doing with Peter’s speech) when he quotes the apocalyptic imagery part. I’ve noticed that this imagery can be used in places like Isaiah to explore to collapse of national powers. Is he saying something to that regard, or does he read it literally, as being a cosmic event about to happen?

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by doug wilkinson

doug wilkinson — Sun, 19 May 2013 17:01:03 +0000

Excellent points. It seems to me that it is more of an eschatological event where Peter primarily declares it to be a fulfillment of Joel, which has deep meaning for the nation at the time.

Comment on Pentecost 2013 by Robert

Robert — Sun, 19 May 2013 15:38:27 +0000

Brian
I would have to agree that it was not the start of the church but was the fulfillment of the Covenant Relationship with the Elohim and the beginning of the restoration of the Lost Sheep. For the exiled who were scattered there was the necessity of a way to enter and maintain the Covenant without having to come to Jerusalem to do so.
On another note about when Pentecost is there were 3 groups of 2nd temple judaism that celebrated is differently .I myself believe the count starts the morrow of the Passover Sabbath but have some issues with the wording “on the morrow” which can certainly mean just the next morning as these verses show
Exo 32:6
So they got up early on the next day and offered up burnt offerings and brought peace offerings, and the people sat down to eat and drink, 1 and they rose up to play. 2
Jdg 21:4
The next morning the people got up early and built an altar there. They offered up burnt sacrifices and token of peace. 1
1Sa 5:3
When the residents of Ashdod got up early the next day, 1 Dagon was lying on the ground before the ark of the Lord. So they took Dagon and set him back in his place.
Gen 19:34
So in the morning the older daughter 1 said to the younger, “Since I had sexual relations with my father last night, let’s make him drunk again tonight. 2 Then you go and have sexual relations with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 3

also its was common for the hebrew to count any part of a day as a day making the possibility that the 49th day came at sunset of the 48th day and the morrow of that coming at daylight of the 49th day which would match the Jubilee that is declared in the seventh month of the 49th year (48 years 7 months).

What are your thoughts?

Comment on Live Blog: Ecclesia and Ethics Online Conference: Day 1, Part 2 by Brian LePort

Brian LePort — Sun, 19 May 2013 12:05:12 +0000

I predict an increase in Toshiba sales among seminarians next year! Will you be able to sign in next week?