Ben Barkley is a student at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He has a new blog where he seems to be focusing mostly on Trinitarian theology. Also, like me he has a background in Oneness Pentecostalism. I think Ben is more theologically and philosophically minded than I am, so I am pleased to see that he has taken on the task of addressing and critiquing the doctrine of our Oneness Pentecostal friends. I invite readers of this blog to take some time to interact with some of his fine posts, whether Trinitarian or Oneness:
Part 1: Deep Things of God and Oneness Doctrine
“The main crux that Trinitarian’s should have with Oneness doctrine is the insistent denial that Jesus preexists. Jesus only preexists as the general Spirit of God and becomes the Son when the Spirit of God incarnates himself into a human carcass. And if following David Bernard, only for 33 years will be the Son; after all Jesus can’t be at the right hand of God because that is only silly figurative language (Dulle critiques Bernard on this point, but Dulle is more of a dynamic binatarian, in my understanding). For many obvious reasons the denial of Jesus’ preexistence is a huge theological error that needs to be taken seriously. And from my own reflecting on Vanhoozer’s “Is There a Meaning in This Text” and Sander’s “Deep Things of God”, if there is no eternal Trinitarian relationship this creates issues in epistemology and linguistics, and issues in our understanding of creation and salvation. Without the Trinity there is no way to know God and there is no Gospel. Further, if there is no Trinity I am not sure I can be a Christian.”
Part 2: Deep Things of God and Oneness Doctrine
” Just to give you an idea the Reformed Church in America has about 250,000 members, PC(USA) has less than 2 million, Evangelical Presbyterian Church has 140,000, the Christian Reformed Church has 251,000, and the United Church of Christ has 1 million. In 1998 the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World (PAW) had 1.5 million and the UPCI has 3 million members. The 5 churches together hold around 3.6 million, whereas the 2 OP organizations have over 4.5 million members. Sure these are all estimations, but this gives us a gauge of seeing OP’s prevalence and this isn’t to take account OP’s other organizations like the ALJC (Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ), AAFCJ (Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus), WPF (World Pentecostal Fellowship) and so on.”
Barkma Blogger Barking at Dulle
“Jason Dulle wrote an essay called “A Oneness View of Jesus’ Prayers” that I will interact with in this blog post. He is one of the more talented of the Oneness apologists. He doesn’t offer the standard answers that have been given and really require a little more mental horsepower to consider. In this post I will try to relay how Dulle proposes to get out of Nestorianism and avoid Trinitarianism. Then try to offer some feedback and maybe even some of my own questions to his arguments, in hopes that someone will straighten me out if I say something off.”
Why I Left Oneness Pentecostalism
“Leaving Oneness Pentecostalism (OP) was one of the best things that I have ever done. But the time of transitioning and rethinking my faith was a very difficult process. My whole life I have been told that if you’re not baptized in Jesus name, filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues and follow the holiness standards then you’re going to hell (some are more lax on the standards, but those are of the liberal kind). Some insist that there is more involved with salvation.”:

July 26, 2012 at 6:14 pm
The main crux that Trinitarian’s should have with Oneness doctrine is the insistent denial that Jesus preexists. Jesus only preexists as the general Spirit of God and becomes the Son when the Spirit of God incarnates himself into a human carcass. And if following David Bernard, only for 33 years will be the Son; after all Jesus can’t be at the right hand of God because that is only silly figurative language (Dulle critiques Bernard on this point, but Dulle is more of a dynamic binatarian, in my understanding). For many obvious reasons the denial of Jesus’ preexistence is a huge theological error that needs to be taken seriously. And from my own reflecting on Vanhoozer’s “Is There a Meaning in This Text” and Sander’s “Deep Things of God”, if there is no eternal Trinitarian relationship this creates issues in epistemology and linguistics, and issues in our understanding of creation and salvation. Without the Trinity there is no way to know God and there is no Gospel. Further, if there is no Trinity I am not sure I can be a Christian.”
Where to start? Not all Oneness believers deny that Jesus preexisted the incarnation.We affirm that Jesus preexisted the incarnation as God.
I’m not sure what you mean by the “general” Spirit of God. Is that some nebulous substance or other?
Do Oneness believers really say that “the Spirit of God incarnates himself into a human carcass?” A “human carcass”? really? I’ve always said that God became a man and not that he took a human carcass to incarnate. I think you are being rather disparaging with that remark.
“Without the Trinity there is no way to know God and there is no Gospel”. My comment to that would be that somehow the jews managed to know God and the early apostles got by quite well without the doctrine of the trinity and yet they knew God.l.
July 27, 2012 at 5:45 am
Brian, has your Oneness background been affected by your experience attending Seminary?
July 27, 2012 at 7:26 am
Also you articulated your position very well at Ben’s blog!
July 27, 2012 at 8:51 am
CarolJean
I welcome you to share your thoughts on Ben’s blog posts.
Andrew
Thank you. I departed from Oneness Pentecostalism prior to seminary, so there was no direct cause-and-effect. In seminary I did have my first opportunity to think through Trinitarian theology, so it did assist me in my journey after leaving.
July 27, 2012 at 10:24 am
How has that process been (meaning having a paradigm shift in your theological thinking). I ask because I myself (also have).
July 27, 2012 at 11:00 am
It has been tough at times, but exciting. I guess that is always the case if someone remains a learner. Old ideas are challenged by new ideas that confront. Sometimes new ideas are accepted.
August 7, 2012 at 2:52 pm
I have a question and a point amalgamated into one: For those who have left the UPC or Oneness Church, did you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit after you were baptized in water while being a UPC member? If you did,what would cause you to leave the UPC altogether? It is as if you are indirectly stating that you received a different spirit and a different gospel. The same goes for one who has left the Trinitarian circle. What are we saying then? If both denominations display evidence of the reception of the Holy Spirit, are we saying that one of those denominations possess a counterfeit spirit? One goes to a trinitarian church and receive the gift of the Spirit, and one goes to the UPC or Oneness church and receives the gift of the Spirit: What’s really up with that? Is there more than what we are telling? Yes, the bible does prophecy about the deception of seducing spirits in the the last days, but how do we decipher some of the things that I’ve mentioned above?
August 7, 2012 at 3:54 pm
Ricky
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I recommend participating in Ben’s posts if you get the chance. This post is aimed to direct people that way.
August 8, 2012 at 12:21 pm
Thanks Brian.